Greetings!

I received my C64U Starlight Monday. I absolutely love this machine. I'm 45 and got a CoCo 2 for my fifth birthday and have been into computers my whole life. I'm living an alternate reality childhood had I gotten a Commodore instead of a CoCo. My oldest nephew is five, and he and his little brother LOVE all my retro tech. We played Nintendo for FOUR HOURS STRAIGHT last Saturday, first time I've done that since I was single-digit aged. I'm going to take the machine to them and teach them BASIC, all that good stuff.

I've made a few videos this week with Commodore at youtube.com/bollingholt

I'm hoping to attach my 1541 to it this weekend and go through some BOXES of disks I recently acquired with a TI-99/4A haul, but I think it's mainly Commodore software. Looking forward to it!!!

Bo Holt

... Torture: The Ultimate Art Form.

--- Renegade v1.40/DOS
* Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (1:129/305)

Bo Holt <usenet@vk3heg.net> writes:

Greetings!

I received my C64U Starlight Monday. I absolutely love this machine. I'm 45 and got a CoCo 2 for my fifth birthday and have been into computers my whole life. I'm living an alternate reality childhood had I gotten a Commodore instead of a CoCo. My oldest nephew is five, and he and his little brother LOVE all my retro tech. We played Nintendo for FOUR HOURS STRAIGHT last Saturday, first time I've done that since I was single-digit aged. I'm going to take the machine to them and teach them BASIC, all that good stuff.

I've made a few videos this week with Commodore at youtube.com/bollingholt

I'm hoping to attach my 1541 to it this weekend and go through some BOXES of disks I recently acquired with a TI-99/4A haul, but I think it's mainly Commodore software. Looking forward to it!!!

Bo Holt

... Torture: The Ultimate Art Form.

Good news. Tell us how you get along. I considered getting a c64 from perifractic but I can't get over the funky keyboard layout of the
commodores. I have a mini and can't really find a good for it. And I'm
not nostalgic for the games.

I hope you find a treasure in that pile of floppies.

Daniel
sysop | air & wave bbs
finger | calcmandan@bbs.erb.pw

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Good news. Tell us how you get along. I considered getting a c64 from perifractic but I can't get over the funky keyboard layout of the commodores. I have a mini and can't really find a good for it. And I'm
not nostalgic for the games.

I hope you find a treasure in that pile of floppies.

Daniel
sysop | air & wave bbs
finger | calcmandan@bbs.erb.pw

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

I cut my teeh on a CoCo 2, so it's "new nostalgia" for me LOL. I didn't attach the floppy this weekend as plans changed, but I did go to my warehouse and grab the disks. Went tech thrifing though ;)

Bo

... Gunpowder and alcohol DO mix - but it tastes awful!

--- Renegade v1.40/DOS
* Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (1:129/305)

Bo Holt <usenet@vk3heg.net> wrote:

I'm going to take the machine to them and teach
them BASIC

Oh no! Keep the kids away from BASIC as it is
one of the most horrendous programming languages
ever invented.

Better to fire up a Fedora Linux or FreeBSD VM and have
the kids learn Python or anything saner than BASIC.

Back in the 1980s BASIC was better than nothing, but
should not be used again in 2026.

br,
KK

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

Bo Holt <usenet@vk3heg.net> wrote:

I'm going to take the machine to them and teach
them BASIC

Oh no! Keep the kids away from BASIC as it is
one of the most horrendous programming languages
ever invented.

Better to fire up a Fedora Linux or FreeBSD VM and have
the kids learn Python or anything saner than BASIC.

Back in the 1980s BASIC was better than nothing, but
should not be used again in 2026.

br,
KK

What horrible advice.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

What horrible advice.

Why do you say so? Python 3 is a nice and clean
language with all the features you would expect
from a good programming language. Fedora Linux
and FreeBSD are millions of times more advanced
than poor old C64. Programming in BASIC using
the horrible C64 screen editor is nothing but
a bad joke in 2026. I have to laugh thinking
about it... Hahah!

BASIC on a C64 lacks almost everything:
no proper WHILE looping, no proper
function calls, no proper data structures,
identifiers are only valid for the two
starting characters. C64 BASIC is beyond awful
and should never be used in 2026. Why would
anyone torture kids with that lame BASIC?

C64 is a great platform for learning
assembly programming though but even so
you should write the code on Linux or FreeBSD
using a proper text editor and a cross assembler,
testing your program with VICE.

br,
KK

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

While BASIC 2.0 had its limmitations (Namely you could not easily take advantage of the 64s graphics and sound capabilities <This was fixed in 7.0). I have the exact OPPOSITE viewpoint as you.

One of the things that is missing from modern computers is the ability to have a built in programming language (Outsie of shell scripts).

BASIC was a great medium to teach children and first time computer users how to think logically, in an easy to understand flow. (Even if you did have to use line numbers..).

While I sorely lack the ability to create my own programs, learning BASIC did give me the ability to understand what a script is doing, and how to be methodical and troubleshot said programs / scripts.

BASIC does offer the same sort of structure that many scripting languages like BASH/REXX, and if you are really old DCL use.

Bring back BASIC!

Rug Rat (Brent Hendricks)
Blog and Forums - www.catracing.org
IMAGE BBS! 3.0 - bbs.catracing.org 6400
C-Net Amiga BBS - bbs.catracing.org 6840
--- CNet/5
* Origin: The Rat's Den BBS (1:135/250)

Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate Starlight
By: Kalevi Kolttonen to All on Tue Mar 10 2026 13:30:01

C64 BASIC is beyond awful and should never be used in 2026. Why would anyone torture kids with that lame BASIC?

I think you're missing the point of retro-computing.
--- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

Many of us wet our feet on basic as children. In fact, many people
progressed into the world of software development from that
introduction. One could argue that it helped lead into the industry
we have today.

My first programming language was indeed C64 BASIC in the latter
half of 1984. We thought it was good because we did not know anything
better.

You told him not to introduce the kids to that same joy he
experienced with an end-of-world urgency. As if they'll be irreparably
harmed by it. Sheesh.

Yeah, BASIC actually harms your brain and teaches you to write
shitty spaghetti code filled with GOTOs. When you progress to proper programming language, you have to unlearn the bad habits you develop
with a sad mess like C64 BASIC. Which sane programming languages use
*line numbers* for fuck's sake? None!

He's doing it to bond with the kids. Maybe he will help them code their
own games and get that satisfaction like he did. For years magazines
supplied source code for games. I used to stay in the computer lab after school to code them myself, since we didn't have a computer at my
home. We had atari game system.

All that can be done way better by using Python 3 or anything other
than C64 BASIC which is quite possibly the worst programming language
ever invented. From a practical point of view, just using the dreaded
screen editor to write code is hell on earth.

Linux and FreeBSD are paradise for programmers, beginners or advanced.

Welcome to 2026.

br,
KK

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

What horrible advice.

Why do you say so? Python 3 is a nice and clean
language with all the features you would expect
from a good programming language. Fedora Linux
and FreeBSD are millions of times more advanced
than poor old C64. Programming in BASIC using
the horrible C64 screen editor is nothing but
a bad joke in 2026. I have to laugh thinking
about it... Hahah!

BASIC on a C64 lacks almost everything:
no proper WHILE looping, no proper
function calls, no proper data structures,
identifiers are only valid for the two
starting characters. C64 BASIC is beyond awful
and should never be used in 2026. Why would
anyone torture kids with that lame BASIC?

C64 is a great platform for learning
assembly programming though but even so
you should write the code on Linux or FreeBSD
using a proper text editor and a cross assembler,
testing your program with VICE.

br,
KK

Many of us wet our feet on basic as children. In fact, many people
progressed into the world of software development from that
introduction. One could argue that it helped lead into the industry
we have today.

You told him not to introduce the kids to that same joy he
experienced with an end-of-world urgency. As if they'll be irreparably
harmed by it. Sheesh.

He's doing it to bond with the kids. Maybe he will help them code their
own games and get that satisfaction like he did. For years magazines
supplied source code for games. I used to stay in the computer lab after
school to code them myself, since we didn't have a computer at my
home. We had atari game system.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate Starlight
By: Kalevi Kolttonen to All on Wed Mar 11 2026 10:00:02

...C64 BASIC which is quite possibly the worst programming language ever invented.

You've never used Algol.

Linux and FreeBSD are paradise for programmers, beginners or advanced.

Those are OSes, not languages.
--- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

On Thu 12-Mar-2026 10:25a, Mortar M.@1:124/5016.0 said to Kalevi Kolttonen:

Linux and FreeBSD are paradise for programmers, beginners or advanced.

Come on... Let's split hairs. The first is a Kernel, the latter is an OS... :)

Rug Rat (Brent Hendricks)
Blog and Forums - www.catracing.org
IMAGE BBS! 3.0 - bbs.catracing.org 6400
C-Net Amiga BBS - bbs.catracing.org 6840
--- CNet/5
* Origin: The Rat's Den BBS (1:135/250)

Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate Starlight
By: Rug Rat to Mortar M. on Thu Mar 12 2026 10:51:01

Come on... Let's split hairs. The first is a Kernel, the latter is an OS...

Wasn't me, but you're right.
--- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

Mortar M. <usenet@vk3heg.net> wrote:

Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate Starlight
By: Kalevi Kolttonen to All on Wed Mar 11 2026 10:00:02

...C64 BASIC which is quite possibly the worst programming language ever invented.

You've never used Algol.

True.

Linux and FreeBSD are paradise for programmers, beginners or advanced.

Those are OSes, not languages.

No kidding? It was just shorthand for "Use systems like these which
have tons of great programming languages and tools, not C64".

br,
KK

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Fri 13-Mar-2026 4:19a, Dr. What@1:342/201.0 said to Mortar M.:

Algol begat Pascal. Pascal is the mother language for pretty much every modern
programming language today.

Who gives a bat's butt! Morse Code is the mother of all digital code, you still won't see me using it!

Use what you feel comfortable with, and enjoy.

I think Basic should still be included on every computer sold as it was easy to learn and often someones first introduction to a computer and how they work.

Rug Rat (Brent Hendricks)
Blog and Forums - www.catracing.org
IMAGE BBS! 3.0 - bbs.catracing.org 6400
C-Net Amiga BBS - bbs.catracing.org 6840
--- CNet/5
* Origin: The Rat's Den BBS (1:135/250)