Hi Michiel!

Sunday February 01 2026 22:00, you wrote to All:

MvdV> List of IPv6 nodes
MvdV> By Michiel van der Vlist, 2:280/5555

MvdV> Updated 29 Jan 2026

As it appears from me.

=== Import Windows Clipboard Start ===
Nodelist for Wednesday, February 4, 2026 -- Day number 035 parsed, 949 IP-nodes processed (0.054 sec)
1:104/0 binkp.pharcyde.org:24554 2603:6000:dc00:44:f1d0:1:154:10 No such AKA.
1:109/0 bbsdoors.com:24554 2002:c6a0:1a1d:0:211:32ff:fec2:2eb6 Error: Connection refused
1:109/567 bbsdoors.com:24554 2002:c6a0:1a1d:0:211:32ff:fec2:2eb6 Error: Connection refused
1:114/0 binkp.pharcyde.org:24554 2603:6000:dc00:44:f1d0:1:154:10 No such AKA.
1:120/340 binkp.echo-base-bbs.com:24554 2a06:98c1:3121::1 Error: Connection timed out
1:120/340 binkp.echo-base-bbs.com:24554 2a06:98c1:3120::1 Error: Connection timed out
1:128/10 bbs.excalibursheath.com:24554 2604:a880:4:1d0::7a11:4000 No such AKA.
1:128/261 vintagebbsing.com:24554 2a06:98c1:3120::1 Error: Connection timed out
1:128/261 vintagebbsing.com:24554 2a06:98c1:3121::1 Error: Connection timed out
1:134/0 nc.fido134.net:24554 2600:3c04:e002:3101:f1d0:1:134:0 Error: Connection timed out
1:134/100 echohub.fido134.net:24554 2600:3c04:e002:3101:f1d0:1:134:100 Error: Connection timed out
1:134/101 binkp.undermine.ca:24554 2600:3c04:e002:3101:f1d0:1:134:0Error: Connection timed out
1:134/302 bbs.epochbbs.com:24554 2a06:a004:4020:beef:f1d0:1:134:302 Error: Connection timed out
1:135/220 bbs.archaicbinary.net:24554 2001:470:1d:4aa::2 Error: Connection timed out
1:135/366 localyocalbbs.com:24554 2603:9000:7006:16f4:590c:41dc:56d3:4531Error: Connection timed out
1:218/220 mysticisland.strangled.net.net:24554 2a06:98c1:3123:8000:: Error: Connection timed out
1:218/220 mysticisland.strangled.net.net:24554 2a06:98c1:3122:8000:: Error: Connection timed out
1:218/880 theviperbbs.ddnsfree.com:24554 2600:6c4e:7001:300:ec3e:f614:5d87:453e Error: Connection timed out
1:220/6 pwecksretreat.com:24554 2606:4700:3031::6815:2c77 Error: Connection timed out
1:220/6 pwecksretreat.com:24554 2606:4700:3035::ac43:c792 Error: Connection timed out
1:220/20 vintagebbsing.com:24554 2a06:98c1:3121::1 Error: Connection timed out
1:220/20 vintagebbsing.com:24554 2a06:98c1:3120::1 Error: Connection timed out
1:229/112 dn42.toztech.com:24554 2001:470:1c:2aa::2 Error: No route to host
1:229/307 centralontarioremote.net:24554 fd1b:d74d:7e07:1:839a:cad2:a109:de06 Error: Connection timed out
1:229/308 centralontarioremote.net:24556 fd1b:d74d:7e07:1:839a:cad2:a109:de06 Error: Connection timed out
1:229/705 halcyonbbs.scisweb.org:24554 2001:470:b326:99::121 Error: Connection timed out
1:326/101 artvandelay.net:24554 2606:4700:3030::ac43:d898 Error: Connection timed out
1:326/101 artvandelay.net:24554 2606:4700:3035::6815:4b47 Error: Connection timed out
1:342/806 xanadubbs.ca:24554 2604:3d09:867f:7887:16fe:db1a:9443:e71eError: Connection timed out
2:222/2 bbbs.net:24554 2a10:a5c0:24f:f000::1 Error: Connection timed out 2:240/1254 sirius1.ddnss.de:24554 2a01:239:374:5600::1 Error: Connection refused
2:240/4075 ninivebbs.selfhost.co:24554 2a02:810d:8000:61::1363 Error: Permission denied
2:240/8050 globalchaosbbs.com:24554 2a02:f90:e000:21ad:e228:6dff:fe69:2460 Error: Connection timed out
2:263/5 the.alienmindbenders.net:24554 2001:67c:0:b00:214:2aff:fe14:cead Error: No route to host
2:280/1049 thecoastbbs.nl:24554 2001:9e0:8547:7c01:ac0:77:8500:100 No such AKA.
2:280/2060 fidonet.aroundmyroom.com:24554 2001:1c00:c204:4300:f1d0:2:280:2060 No such AKA.
2:301/1 fnthub.abad1dea.to:24554 2a00:41c0:d185:19:87:131:0:d Error: Connection timed out
2:335/1 fido.fidobbs.it:24554 2001:41d0:203:a5c8::3 Error: Connection timed out
2:4624/8 fido.km.ua:24554 2a00:6740:1:1:500:: Error: Connection timed out
2:463/877 bbs.ncc.org.ua:24554 2a01:d5:0:21b:f1d0:2:463:877 Error: Connection timed out
2:5000/444 f444.n5000.z2.homelabs.org:24555 2607:5300:205:200::1bf4Error: Connection refused
2:5005/77 fido.pluto.pw:24554 2a0d:8340:1818:5555:f1d0:2:5005:77 Error: No route to host
2:5005/106 fido.osiyuk.ru:24554 2001:470:1f0a:e13:ffff:2:5005:106 Error: Network is unreachable
2:5010/275 fido.chevtaev.ru:24554 2a0d:8340:574:5555:f1d0:2:5010:275 Error: No route to host
2:5010/278 f278.n5010.unixoid.su:24554 2001:470:70a1:ffff:f1d0:2:5010:278 Error: No route to host
2:5010/278 f278.n5010.unixoid.su:24554 2a03:e2c0:47cf:ffff:f1d0:2:5010:278 Error: No route to host
2:5010/278 f278.n5010.unixoid.su:24554 2a0f:cdc6:2024:21ff:f1d0:2:5010:278 Error: Permission denied
2:5020/730 node.xepb.org:24554 2001:470:1a2d:64::48 Error: Connection timed out
2:5020/2123 fido.zxlab.ru:24554 2a03:e2c0:1a1e:1::3 Error: No route to host
2:5022/128 f128.n5022.z2.binkp.net:24554 2a01:4f8:c013:10fb::1 Error: Connection refused
2:5030/74 cats-home.net:24554 2a05:3580:2e06:9800:62a4:4cff:fe3f:70e2Error: Connection timed out
2:5030/3165 fidonet.podtynnyi.com:24554 2a03:b0c0:2:f0::369:4001 Error: Connection timed out
2:5075/128 fido.dewy.ru:24554 2a03:e2c0:12a2:0:f1d0:2:5075:128 Error: No route to host
2:5095/0 n5095.stabilis.ru:24554 2001:470:28:7ac::1 Error: Connection refused
2:5097/24 optimusprime.mykeenetic.com:24554 2a01:4f8:172:3159::181 Error: Connection timed out
2:530/204 bbs.masoft.ro:24554 2606:4700:3030::6815:50b6 Error: Connection timed out
2:530/204 bbs.masoft.ro:24554 2606:4700:3034::ac43:991b Error: Connection timed out
3:57/0 agency.bbs.nz:24554 2407:8b00:1169:900::100 Error: No route to host 3:633/410 freeway.vkradio.com:24555 2407:8800:bcc2:a01::6 Error: Connection timed out
3:633/509 alterant.bbs.dege.au:24564 2406:3400:314:2497:d0c:f105:0:fError: Connection timed out
3:712/620 dungeon.barnabasmusic.com:24554 2606:4700:3033::6815:227e Error: Connection timed out
3:712/620 dungeon.barnabasmusic.com:24554 2606:4700:3033::ac43:a13f Error: Connection timed out
3:770/0 agency.bbs.nz:24554 2407:8b00:1169:900::100 Error: No route to host 3:770/1 agency.bbs.nz:24554 2407:8b00:1169:900::100 Error: No route to host 3:770/100 agency.bbs.nz:24555 2407:8b00:1169:900::100 Error: No route to host
3:772/0 agency.bbs.nz:24554 2407:8b00:1169:900::100 Error: No route to host 3:772/1 agency.bbs.nz:24554 2407:8b00:1169:900::100 Error: No route to host 3:772/210 bbs.thenet.gen.nz:24554 2406:e001:1:6801:de88:2d63:68b1:7c Error: Connection timed out
4:902/6 lu9dce.dynu.com:24554 2800:810:4a6:915:f94a:f88e:80a:c26a Error: No route to host
=== Import Windows Clipboard End ===

Have a nice night.
Stas Mishchenkov.

--- Have You daily sexual life? Hide it proper from Your wife! ;)
* Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)

Hi Stas,

I tested the dutch nodes in your list.

On 2026-02-04 17:18:50, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

2:280/1049 thecoastbbs.nl:24554
2001:9e0:8547:7c01:ac0:77:8500:100 No such AKA.

I get an OK for this node!?

Calling '2:280/1049'. Call time: '0000-2400' UTC.
thecoastbbs.nl, 24554
Calling 2:280/1049 (2001:9e0:8547:7c01:ac0:77:8500:100:24554)
address: 2:280/1049@fidonet
2001:9e0:8547:7c01:ac0:77:8500:100 - Ok.

So?

2:280/2060 fidonet.aroundmyroom.com:24554 2001:1c00:c204:4300:f1d0:2:280:2060 No such AKA.

Indeed point 2:280/2060.6 is answering on this IPv6 address! And not the node...


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.6-B20251227
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Wilfred!

Wednesday February 04 2026 16:35, you wrote to me:

I tested the dutch nodes in your list.

On 2026-02-04 17:18:50, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

2:280/1049 thecoastbbs.nl:24554
2001:9e0:8547:7c01:ac0:77:8500:100 No such AKA.

I get an OK for this node!?

Calling '2:280/1049'. Call time: '0000-2400' UTC.
thecoastbbs.nl, 24554
Calling 2:280/1049 (2001:9e0:8547:7c01:ac0:77:8500:100:24554)
address: 2:280/1049@fidonet
2001:9e0:8547:7c01:ac0:77:8500:100 - Ok.

So?

Now I got "Ok" too. Hm.

2:280/2060 fidonet.aroundmyroom.com:24554
2001:1c00:c204:4300:f1d0:2:280:2060 No such AKA.

Indeed point 2:280/2060.6 is answering on this IPv6 address! And not the node...

Does he know about it?

And what about "connection refused" and "no route to host" results?

Have a nice night.
Stas Mishchenkov.

--- Have You daily sexual life? Hide it proper from Your wife! ;)
* Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)

Hi Stas,

On 2026-02-04 19:32:00, you wrote to me:

2:280/1049 thecoastbbs.nl:24554
2001:9e0:8547:7c01:ac0:77:8500:100 No such AKA.

I get an OK for this node!?

Calling '2:280/1049'. Call time: '0000-2400' UTC.
thecoastbbs.nl, 24554
Calling 2:280/1049 (2001:9e0:8547:7c01:ac0:77:8500:100:24554)
address: 2:280/1049@fidonet
2001:9e0:8547:7c01:ac0:77:8500:100 - Ok.

So?

Now I got "Ok" too. Hm.

2:280/2060 fidonet.aroundmyroom.com:24554
2001:1c00:c204:4300:f1d0:2:280:2060 No such AKA.

Indeed point 2:280/2060.6 is answering on this IPv6 address! And not the
node...

Does he know about it?

If he doesn't respond here, I'll let him know. ;-)

And what about "connection refused" and "no route to host" results?

So I tested your full list. I get a few Ok's, and a few 'No such AKA''s:

1:135/220 bbs.archaicbinary.net:24554 2001:470:1d:4aa::2 Ok. 2:222/2 bbbs.net:24554 2a10:a5c0:24f:f000::1 Ok.
2:280/1049 thecoastbbs.nl:24554 2001:9e0:8547:7c01:ac0:77:8500:100 Ok.

1:104/0 binkp.pharcyde.org:24554 2603:6000:dc00:44:f1d0:1:154:10 No such AKA.
1:114/0 binkp.pharcyde.org:24554 2603:6000:dc00:44:f1d0:1:154:10 No such AKA.
1:128/10 bbs.excalibursheath.com:24554 2604:a880:4:1d0::7a11:4000 No such AKA.
2:280/2060 fidonet.aroundmyroom.com:24554 2001:1c00:c204:4300:f1d0:2:280:2060 No such AKA.

The others don't get a connect here either. Does this answer your question? ;-)


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.6-B20251227
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello, Wilfred!

Wednesday February 04 2026 19:01, you wrote to Stas Mishchenkov:

So I tested your full list. I get a few Ok's, and a few 'No such
AKA''s:

I have dedicted "AKA Mismatch" report:

https://nodelist.fidonet.cc/analytics/aka-mismatch?days=30&limit=1000&includeZero=true



Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/OSX 1.1.5-b20250409
* Origin: All is good in St. John's Wood (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Dmitry,

On Wednesday February 04 2026 20:16, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

I have dedicted "AKA Mismatch" report:

https://nodelist.fidonet.cc/analytics/aka-mismatch?days=30&limit=1000& includeZero=true

Note that in the particular case of 280/2060, the AKA mismatch only occurs when connecting via IPv6. There is no problem when connecting via IPv4. So you may have to split it up and test both protocols.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)

Hi Dmitry,

On 2026-02-04 20:16:33, you wrote to me:

So I tested your full list. I get a few Ok's, and a few 'No such
AKA''s:

I have dedicted "AKA Mismatch" report:

https://nodelist.fidonet.cc/analytics/aka-mismatch?days=30&limit=1000&includeZ
ero=true

There are surprisingly many. And those /0 are even worse.

And you might want to look into these: 2:5058/108 2:201/111 2:5066/35

I can connect to them without error. Those use Radius and Argus mailers, which seem to do things a little bit different...


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.6-B20251227
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello, Michiel!

Wednesday February 04 2026 21:34, you wrote to me:

Note that in the particular case of 280/2060, the AKA mismatch only
occurs when connecting via IPv6. There is no problem when connecting
via IPv4. So you may have to split it up and test both protocols.

Wow, that's amazing! I never thought someone would provide different addresses on ipv4 and ipv6. It was really beyond my imagination.

Ok, "No plan survives first contact with the enemy"(c).

New tests will handle such cases: I was testing both ipv4 and ipv6, but saved node information only once (ipv6 preferred). This is actually a good case, because now I am getting node information:

binkp ipv6
binkp ipv4
ifcico ipv6
ifcico ipv4
modem ifcico

and more to come..

If it's complicated, I am having a good time testing and fixing it :)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/OSX 1.1.5-b20250409
* Origin: All is good in St. John's Wood (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Wilfred!

Wednesday February 04 2026 22:15, you wrote to me:

And you might want to look into these: 2:5058/108 2:201/111 2:5066/35

Oh, thanks a lot for the bug report, feedback is always a gift!
It's a bug in my binkp implementation:

in C, strings are null-terminated, in Go there are not.

Fixed!


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/OSX 1.1.5-b20250409
* Origin: All is good in St. John's Wood (2:5001/100.1)

Hey Stas!

On Wed, Feb 04 2026 08:18:50 -0600, you wrote:

1:104/0 binkp.pharcyde.org:24554 2603:6000:dc00:44:f1d0:1:154:10 No
such AKA.

1:114/0 binkp.pharcyde.org:24554 2603:6000:dc00:44:f1d0:1:154:10 No
such AKA.

These should be fixed. Just "interim" NC numbers I never paid much attention to and never added to binkd. The 2-3 nodes in each have no care in the world to be NC, and don't want to change their node number. C'est la vie.

Thanks for the report, though!

Regards,
Nick

... Sarcasm, because beating people up is illegal.
--- SBBSecho 3.36-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

Hello, Michiel!

Sunday February 01 2026 22:00, you wrote to All:

*List of IPv6 nodes
List of IPv6 nodes
By Michiel van der Vlist, 2:280/5555

Updated 29 Jan 2026

I've created a report that produces the same list, but based on real-life tests (check "Download as Text" button):

https://nodelist.fidonet.cc/analytics/ipv6-node-list

Many Russian nodes got a 6UNS status. This is because the Russian Internet is now heavily filtered and connections from Oracle Cloud fail during drone attacks or when new anti VPN filters are applied by the Russian censorship authorities.

I could test them from Russia, but I think that wouldn't be accurate at all. It's better to show that those nodes are actually unstable for other FidoNet nodes.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/OSX 1.1.5-b20250409
* Origin: All is good in St. John's Wood (2:5001/100.1)

Hi Stas,

On 2026-02-04 19:01:42, I wrote to you:

2:280/2060 fidonet.aroundmyroom.com:24554
2001:1c00:c204:4300:f1d0:2:280:2060 No such AKA.

Indeed point 2:280/2060.6 is answering on this IPv6 address! And not
the node...

Does he know about it?

If he doesn't respond here, I'll let him know. ;-)

It's fixed now...


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.6-B20251227
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Dmitry,

On Wednesday February 04 2026 23:12, you wrote to me:

Note that in the particular case of 280/2060, the AKA mismatch
only occurs when connecting via IPv6. There is no problem when
connecting via IPv4. So you may have to split it up and test both
protocols.

Wow, that's amazing! I never thought someone would provide different addresses on ipv4 and ipv6. It was really beyond my imagination.

Same here. If last week someone had proposed such a situation could arise and should be taken covered by error detection, I would have rejected it as outlandish. It shows that reality can be weirder than imigination. :-)

New tests will handle such cases: I was testing both ipv4 and ipv6,
but saved node information only once (ipv6 preferred). This is
actually a good case, because now I am getting node information:

Now someone should repeat the error to test it. The sysop of 2L280/2060 has corrected the original error in the meantime.

binkp ipv6
binkp ipv4
ifcico ipv6
ifcico ipv4
modem ifcico

and more to come..

OK...

If it's complicated, I am having a good time testing and fixing it :)

You'r doing a good job. Keep going!


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hi Wilfred!

Wednesday February 04 2026 19:01, you wrote to me:

And what about "connection refused" and "no route to host" results?

So I tested your full list. I get a few Ok's, and a few 'No such AKA''s:

1:135/220 bbs.archaicbinary.net:24554 2001:470:1d:4aa::2
Ok.

Strange.

[14:38:05 brorabbit logs]$ callip -c ~/etc/callip.conf -b -f 1:135/220
You have actual version.
Parsing nodelist file /home/fido/nodelist/nodelist.367
Nodelist for Thursday, February 5, 2026 -- Day number 036 parsed, 949 IP-nodes processed (0.052 sec)
Calling '1:135/220'. Call time: '0000-2400' UTC.
Now is: 1139 UTC.
bbs.archaicbinary.net, 24554
Calling 1:135/220 (2001:470:1d:4aa::2:24554)
error (Connection timed out)
Calling 1:135/220 (167.114.108.156:24554)
error (Connection timed out)

2:222/2 bbbs.net:24554 2a10:a5c0:24f:f000::1 Ok.
2:280/1049 thecoastbbs.nl:24554
2001:9e0:8547:7c01:ac0:77:8500:100 Ok.

Now both Ok for me too.

The others don't get a connect here either. Does this answer your question? ;-)

Yes.

Have a nice night.
Stas Mishchenkov.

--- Have You daily sexual life? Hide it proper from Your wife! ;)
* Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)

Hi Stas,

On 2026-02-05 14:40:08, you wrote to me:

1:135/220 bbs.archaicbinary.net:24554 2001:470:1d:4aa::2
Ok.

Strange.

[14:38:05 brorabbit logs]$ callip -c ~/etc/callip.conf -b -f 1:135/220
You have actual version.
Parsing nodelist file /home/fido/nodelist/nodelist.367
Nodelist for Thursday, February 5, 2026 -- Day number 036 parsed, 949 IP-nodes
processed (0.052 sec) Calling '1:135/220'. Call time: '0000-2400' UTC. Now is:
1139 UTC. bbs.archaicbinary.net, 24554 Calling 1:135/220 (2001:470:1d:4aa::2:24554) error (Connection timed out) Calling 1:135/220 (167.114.108.156:24554) error (Connection timed out)

I can still connect OK with this system. Maybe it has a geo block in its firewall for your location?


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.6-B20251227
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Dmitry,

On Thursday February 05 2026 01:51, you wrote to me:

I've created a report that produces the same list, but based on
real-life tests (check "Download as Text" button):

https://nodelist.fidonet.cc/analytics/ipv6-node-list

Nice!

Many Russian nodes got a 6UNS status. This is because the Russian
Internet is now heavily filtered and connections from Oracle Cloud
fail during drone attacks or when new anti VPN filters are applied by
the Russian censorship authorities.

Yes, I too noticed that the mojority of the 6UNS nodes are Russian. Some are in Ukraine. But there are some in "the west" as well. I flagged then as 6UNS but they may be just as unstable with IPv6. But my list is about IPv6, so that is what I list.

I could test them from Russia, but I think that wouldn't be accurate
at all. It's better to show that those nodes are actually unstable for other FidoNet nodes.

Yeah, better leave it as it is.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)

Hi Nick!

Wednesday February 04 2026 19:50, you wrote to me:

1:104/0 binkp.pharcyde.org:24554 2603:6000:dc00:44:f1d0:1:154:10 No
such AKA.

1:114/0 binkp.pharcyde.org:24554 2603:6000:dc00:44:f1d0:1:154:10 No
such AKA.

These should be fixed.

It MUST be fixed.

Just "interim" NC numbers I never paid much attention to and never
added to binkd. The 2-3 nodes in each have no care
in the world to be NC, and don't want to change their node number.
C'est la vie.

It doesn't need to be changed, it just needs to be added. It's assumed that this isn't a particularly technically challenging task for the network coordinator.

Thanks for the report, though!

Do not mention it. ;)

Have a nice night.
Stas Mishchenkov.

--- Have You daily sexual life? Hide it proper from Your wife! ;)
* Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)

Hey Stas!

On Fri, Feb 06 2026 18:08:18 -0600, you wrote:

1:104/0 binkp.pharcyde.org:24554 2603:6000:dc00:44:f1d0:1:154:10
No such AKA.

1:114/0 binkp.pharcyde.org:24554 2603:6000:dc00:44:f1d0:1:154:10
No such AKA.

These should be fixed.

It MUST be fixed.

Maybe you misunderstood what I wrote, or what I meant by it.

It doesn't need to be changed, it just needs to be added. It's
assumed that this isn't a particularly technically challenging task
for the network coordinator.

It isn't challenging at all (it was unknown/unrealized until you said something, which is why I thanked you for informing me about it). What seems to be a bit challenging, is English not being your first language.

To clarify, when I said "this should be fixed" it meant that the issue was addressed (as in *I* fixed it), so the next time you decide to spam every system in Fidonet with multiple connections, hopefully it doesn't show up on your list.

Just as you ASS-U-ME, I did the same, and hoped you would see the domain I quoted is in my origin line.

Regards,
Nick

... Sarcasm, because beating people up is illegal.
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